Dr. Allison Eckard | Back to the Classroom Safely

A lot has changed since shutting down schools in fear of the deadly COVID-19 virus. Educations leaders are now working to figure out how students can get back to in-person instruction safely. About half of the schools in South Carolina are still teaching virtually. Infectious disease pediatrician Dr. Allison Eckard, M.D., has worked closely with school districts to identify mitigation strategies to help slow or stop the spread of COVID-19. Dr. Eckard is jointly appointed as Professor in the Departments of Pediatrics and Medicine, Divisions of Infectious Diseases at the Medical University of South Carolina. Dr. Eckard serves as the division chief for pediatric infectious diseases and director of MUSC’s Ryan White pediatric HIV clinic and HIV transition clinic.  Read more about her work with the Coronavirus and SC school districts here.

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0:07  
There's the bell. And that means we're in session. Welcome to sc charter chatter represented by the Public Charter School alliance in South Carolina. Thank you for joining us for this bonus episode. We're your co-host for St. Charter chatter. I'm Kevin. And I'm Patty. Patty. I can't believe it another episode. Just very happy to be here. How are you today? I'm good, good. You know enjoying that analytics of the podcasts you all are? You are in those stats, there's no doubt about that. I didn't, you know, I've never really been a statistician, but I'm really kind of enjoying, I think every day she calls me and says, Have you seen this? Have you seen that? And they are cool. And I text you something? They are cool to look at, though. Because we've had multiple downloads and right Europe or so we're on three continents, three continents, we had an Asia hop up and it was summer in Russia. Well, thank you. Thank you for listening. Yes, thank you, Vladimir Putin, whoever you may be, possibly.

1:04  
But we appreciate all the listens. We appreciate all the downloads, the subscribes, the ratings that you've given us? Yeah, we really do appreciate it. We're gonna keep this going. We have an exciting episode today. Dr. Allison Eckert from M USC is going to be joining us and giving us her insights or thoughts, and share some of her research with us. And I'm really excited to present that to you guys. So

1:28  
I can't wait to dive in. And this. You heard me mention it there, Patty, a bonus episode. So we're gonna do these from time to time throughout the year.

1:39  
We're going to talk about issues that are timely at the moment, information that we believe is valuable, but topics that may not be evergreen, they may change the information may change later. But this is information that we think is important right now, right? And this bonus episode, Kevin actually came about from a listener suggestion in our email, right? That's right. So, you know, there's those who wanted to hear medical information about going back to school in person and their thoughts on the safety and risks for not only our children but also, you know, staff and anybody who, who goes and has a school as their place of employment. And that's the great thing about our charter community, Patti, their willingness to reach out to share their ideas and thoughts. And we do want to be clear on one thing here, Patty, we are advocating for all schools to return to in-person instruction right now, right? If your situation isn't safe for students, teachers, and staff, we understand that. But we do want to bring you the latest information so that you can make informed decisions and choices that work best for your school and situation, right. And that's what I think really drives the charter movement, those fully autonomous schools with their own board of directors who can research discuss, and then make those informed decisions for what is best for their individual school community. Absolutely. And I think today, Dr. Eckert is going to share some things, some physical steps that can be taken. And

3:13  
maybe you're already doing them. Maybe you thought of them. Maybe you're implementing, but I really think she shares some knowledge here that you'll want to, you want to dive into. If you do want to get in touch with us, you can do that. Through our email. It's a podcast at sc charter schools.org podcast at sc charter schools. org. And let us know what you're thinking your thoughts, ideas for ideas, future episodes. were listening. So let us know. All right, let's slide right into today's episode, we're talking with Dr. Allison Eckerd. Dr. Eckert is a pediatric infectious disease doctor at the Medical University of South Carolina, which we, of course, know locally as M USC. And Dr. Eckerd, has been working with the Charleston County School District. And we learned today multiple other school districts around the state. Yes. As well, during this pandemic, with Dr. Eckert, thank you for sharing your insights with our charter school community in South Carolina and what you have found through your research, let's start with how you came to your conclusion that students can go back to school safely. Because as I understand initially, you were not in favor of going back in person. Well, thank you for having me today. It is my privilege to speak with you. So early on in the pandemic, there was so much we didn't know. And obviously, things have evolved in many of the things we thought maybe true early on. We've just found it not to be true.

4:45  
And that is the nature of any new infectious disease or a new condition. So we have to constantly be looking at new data and evolving as things come up.

4:58  
One of the things that we know

5:00  
In infectious disease is that respiratory viruses tend to spread very quickly among children, and particularly in the school setting. So many of us just naturally thought that because of the Coronavirus, and we know that coronaviruses outside of COVID, another Coronavirus has spread very rapidly in schools, we assumed it would be the same.

5:25  
But what has turned out to seemingly be true is that when we put these risk mitigations in place, in combination with some very unique features of COVID-19,

5:40  
that the spread that we would have expected just doesn't seem to have occurred in reality, that is definitely what we're hearing amongst kind of our, even our kids, doctors and you know, people locally. So, Dr. Eckard, what are some of the biggest risks that you see in regards to kids going back to school in person, and then kind of as a follow-up, what are some of the biggest risks in continuing Virtual Education that you see, just even amongst your practice, so obviously, going back to school in person has become very controversial and contentious, unfortunately, and our children are in the middle of this. So I think that the biggest risk to going back is that not everybody is making wise decisions outside of school. And that truly is, the biggest risk of opening up schools is that you may be safe all day at school, but then you go to a sleepover, or you play basketball indoors with no mask,

6:49  
and you acquire COVID, and then you take it into the school setting. So we really think that most cases are acquired outside of the classroom. And obviously, the more cases there are, the more people are at risk inside the classroom.

7:08  
And so until people really fully recognize that their behaviors matter outside of the school, I think that that will continue to be the biggest risk to everybody in school,

7:21  
if that makes sense. Yeah. And then, of course, as that follow-up, what do you see as the biggest risks for continuing Virtual Education? Yeah. So everything is risk-benefit analysis, in life, and certainly in medicine. And we have seen some pretty devastating effects so far if keeping kids virtual.

7:44  
And we've seen this anecdotally, and there are no data to support some of these users as well.

7:52  
You know, it's a very lonely time for many people. And children are, by nature, very social and require physical

8:04  
time with other people to grow developmentally, and to become good human beings, if you can describe it that way. And so sitting in front of a TV, or a computer screen all day is just terrible for their socio-emotional growth.

8:26  
And the other things that we're really seeing is, we have started to see more gun violence, more suicidal behavior, suicidal thoughts.

8:38  
An interesting part about a new study that came out about gun violence is that the increase in gun violence occurred on the weekdays, not on the weekends. And in fact, on the weekends, it was opposite was actually lower than it had been in the past. And yeah, I mean, it's it was surprising. And the thought behind that is that, in general, many children are unsupervised during the week now, because parents have to work.

9:09  
And so for all of these reasons, and the list goes on and on. Many children receive services at school, they receive hot meals at school.

9:20  
So I think that we can keep kids safe at school. And that small risk is worth getting them there to avoid all of the negative effects of a virtual school. Yeah. So that is so so interesting.

9:41  
I know, there's been some discussion about testing in schools, and there's a lot of challenges like funding training, logistics, you know, among others. is testing in schools even feasible. I mean, we've heard you know, we've I know up in the Upstate where I live, you know, they said

10:00  
We're gonna give testing kits to the schools and, you know, but they're only going to test people who are showing symptoms, well, they shouldn't even be at school if they're showing symptoms. So I mean, talk to us a little bit about what you think the thought behind it was, and if it's even going to work, right. So testing with COVID is so complicated, and I could talk for an hour just on the intricacies of testing.

10:24  
The bottom line is that you cannot test your way out of this pandemic. There is a recent research article about the NFL, and the risk of transmission was in the NFL, and they were testing seven days a week, and they still had cases. Now, why they had cases is a little off-topic for this question. But the point being, you just cannot test your way out of this, this pandemic. That said, there are many cases where testing really is important. And one of those is that if you have an asymptomatic child to test them, so that you can decide very quickly if they've exposed anybody, and can get those secondary people you know, out of the school, and quarantines to minimize the risk to others.

11:20  
You're right, kids with symptoms should not be at school. And those symptoms can be very, very mild. And sometimes people just don't recognize their symptoms until they're at school. And so yes, they shouldn't be there. But if they are there, that is a good opportunity to get them tested and they should be tested.

11:41  
The problem with testing in schools is that there are some tests that just are not as great as others. And so it depends so much on what the test is, who collects it, where is it, you know, where's the testing run. And a negative test does not always mean that that person doesn't have COVID. And so some of these intricacies get lost in the weeds a little bit. But the bottom line is, yes, kids need to be tested staff need to be tested, particularly if they're symptomatic. But that is only one piece of a giant puzzle of keeping kids safe at school. Absolutely. Well, let's talk a little bit about some mitigation strategies. So take us down a road that schools the steps that schools can take, and do every day to help lower spread or stop the spread. The approach that I like to talk about and that many schools have implemented is this multi-layered approach. So factories and other employment places have done a similar strategy for four decades. And the idea is that if you put many layers in, starting with the individual, all the way up to the facility, that the risk of transmission, in this case, gets lower and lower with every layer of risk mitigation. So it obviously starts with the individual. As you mentioned, you don't come to school, if you're symptomatic, you don't come to school, if you've been in close contact with somebody who's got COVID or COVID-like symptoms, you try to avoid the sleepovers and other high-risk behavior. And then it goes from there. So I'm a big proponent of masks have been shown to work.

13:29  
They are not harmful in any way that I have seen in reality, or in published studies.

13:36  
You try to space kids to the best that we can, of course, there are some limitations based on age and facility. But obviously, that that's important.

13:47  
And then it goes all the way up from there. So in some cases, replacing the filtration system, hand hygiene, all of those things together as a package, really is what we need to focus on to keep the schools safe. Well, you mentioned masks right there. And there's been debate recently about types of masks. Should students and teachers and staff members inside schools be wearing a certain kind of mask, double masking a double mat? That's right. So that's been talked about here recently, too. Yeah. Is that a real concern or just having a mask on? So somethings better than nothing? But certainly there is some differentiation between different masks. And again, this is an evolving thing. We know much more about this now than we did a year ago. It does seem that if you can put together you know, a single mask that has two or three layers that is better than a single layer. And there are certain fabrics that may work a little bit better than others but even a cotton bandana

15:01  
has some protection compared to nothing, I would argue that that's probably not the best thing to wear at school.

15:09  
And there are some great resources now on the CDC website and other places that can really help parents

15:17  
find the best mask, but I will tell you that in my experience, the number one key is fit. So in little kids, you know, I have little kids in my house, and it is hard sometimes to find a mask that fits them well.

15:33  
But if you can find a mask, that they don't mess with too much, and that stays in place, and ideally has two or three layers, that would be your very best mask to wear. What about keeping that mask clean, smaller kids, we mentioned that and pulling it on and off their face, and of course, breathing in it all day.

15:56  
So what what would you recommend just as a medical professional, washing it every day, once a week? What would you say? Right? Or disposable? Right? Right. So there's not a one size fits all, obviously. But yeah, what I have told parents and other people who worry about little kids and I have a four year old and a six year old, you know, they've gotten much better, but they do sometimes touch their mask. And and there is this idea that while that makes it such that you shouldn't wear a mask at all. And and I say that as not true. wearing a mask, most of the time correctly, or even some of the time correctly is still better than no mask at all. And in the case of little kids, you know, you will have to hand hygiene and do those things more frequently because they touch their mask. But it is still better. If anybody has kids and has gotten sneezed on you know what droplets come out of their mouth.

16:58  
So having some barrier is better than nothing. And if it is a cloth mask, yes, it should be washed once a day.

17:08  
It can be disposable if you have a good mask that fits that way. But a cloth mask and washing it

17:17  
in the washing machine with regular detergent is perfectly acceptable, you can wash it in the sink as well. The CDC has great advice as to how to properly handle and wash your mask. So I would refer you there for more details. But they've really been great with all of their visuals and written materials that I think have have been in a way that most people can understand which has been really great to see the CDC in such a you know, such a light, you know, speaking of CDC, and kind of switching gears a little bit and moving towards vaccinations. So the new CDC director has come out in favor of kids returning to school and says that vaccinating teachers is not necessarily a prerequisite for that to happen. But what would you say to a teacher or staff member that's afraid to return to imperson instruction without having that vaccine? I understand everybody's worry, and fear. And sometimes that can take over.

18:24  
Really looking objectively at what we know, and the published literature and of course, things are evolving.

18:31  
But what we think and what I have seen with the data I've looked at is that if you put these risk mitigations in place, that people are really safe at school. And so I think the worry is that if we keep kids out of school for so long, that detriment to those kids is so great. And it's going to take time to vaccinate everybody. And yes, I would love for everybody to be vaccinated before we go back to school. But it is not

19:06  
going to happen in terms of how much vaccine we have. And I do agree at this point with the CDC director, that from what we know it is not necessary to be safe at school to have received the vaccine. So we just really have to be

19:24  
careful about how we open up schools and how we keep them safe as we increase capacity. And yes, teachers need to be vaccinated, but I don't think that it has to happen before we we open schools again. And what about immunocompromised children? I know you've worked extensively with kids who have a variety of different conditions that cause their immune system to be

19:52  
weakened or compromised. I know I have a friend who's an educator and her son was born premature and thankfully she's been able to teach

20:00  
Virtually this year and keep her son home. But, you know, she knows he needs to get back to school. I mean, she can feel it, you know that, like you said, kids are social beings. But as a mom, she wants to keep them safe. And she's scared. What do you say to parents of your patience, like her to help them make the best decision for their child in regards to returning to school? Right? So I get this question a lot, and there is not a perfect answer. Right? You know, of course, like anything, but it depends a little bit on the age of the child and the condition that the child has, there are certain conditions that really do make them a little bit more likely to have more severe COVID. But I will say that the vast majority of children, even those who are immunocompromised, or who have underlying conditions, even when they get COVID, they tend to do very well, compared to adults. And there's many reasons for that, that, you know, probably not relevant to this discussion. But

21:02  
I would encourage all of those families to really have some deep discussions with their primary physicians, particularly in the specialty that the child's condition, you know, comes from, so for example, our heart transplant patients, talk to your cardiologist. In many cases, it is probably okay for them to go back.

21:28  
And be cautious and know that there is some risk, but that the risk of keeping them out of school in the long run is even greater.

21:38  
But there are just a lot of analyses that have to kind of go into that.

21:44  
That thought process and really should be determined into on an individual basis. Dr. Eckert, I want to go back to the vaccine. Just real quickly. Give me your thoughts a little bit on vaccinating children under the age of 15. We haven't seen a lot of that happening. There's not a significant sample of children under 15 being vaccinated. And really you don't hear about the cause for for children being vaccinated. But a lot of reasons because you've you've just mentioned, but what are your thoughts on on that and vaccinating, when it would be their appropriate time? Right? Right, when we get there and vaccinating those, those students whose children are 15 years old? Sure. So there are a number of clinical trials going on in the US for children and vaccines. So the that is coming, we will have data, my best guess is probably within the next six months. Although there's you know, a lot of unknowns about when that will come out.

22:46  
I have no reason to think that children won't do just as well or even better with the vaccine than than adults. But as a pediatrician, I never like to extrapolate from adult data and just say, Oh, it's fine. Let's give it to kids. Because sometimes things are a little bit different in that population. They are not, you know, little adults, like many people think they are very different than adults. So I suspect that it will be safe and effective, and that

23:17  
they will eventually be able to get the vaccine, it's just going to take a little bit of time for us to be certain that it is safe. And that is our due diligence and what all of us should expect. Right, right. Well, you know, long before we even heard of COVID-19, schools had already been discussing the need for mental health counselors in schools. And you've already discussed today with us about, you know, mental health deteriorating, and kids who have been kept out of schools. How do you think this pandemic is going to affect the social and emotional health of children and you've already discussed that a little bit, but more in regards to the need for mental health counselors in schools, as you see it, some mental health issues have been a concern in children, as you mentioned, long before the pandemic. And, you know, we need to do a better job of recognizing children who are suffering

24:18  
and who may benefit from intervention. And the pandemic obviously, has made a lot of this worse and has brought some of these issues, you know, to the forefront.

24:31  
We do need to educate families we need to educate our educators in terms of recognizing red flags and symptoms, that could be

24:44  
an indication that there is, you know, a mental health problem and you know, we just need to get better about this.

24:54  
Any suicide or mental health problem in children is always

25:00  
just devastating. And I'm, you know, hoping that

25:06  
that we can undo some of the depression and anxiety that has developed around the pandemic.

25:15  
And, and really help all of the kids who may be suffering. No, you're absolutely right. And it's obviously something that we've been worried about for a while. So Kevin, Doctor record we've seen this recently in South Carolina and I know you've spoke on it before but discussing Miss see the multi symptom inflammatory syndrome that's associated with COVID-19. You were recently quoted as saying this syndrome, although it's very rare, is often life threatening and very serious for children. And many people have never heard of it. Can you enlighten us on what this is and why it is? So your parents dangerous for? Right, I guess that's the biggest thing is we identify it? Yes. You were just thinking about identifying those mental health issues, but how do we how do we identify Missy? And is that what it is? Is it Missy or am I SC who you can call it whatever you want.

26:09  
So some some people call it new C, I still am calling it MSC either. I think it's acceptable. It stands for multi system inflammatory syndrome and children. And it is a post infectious inflammatory response to the COVID virus or you know, the SARS COVID.

26:30  
And it occurs in children any age from infancy all the way up to 21. There is an equivalent syndrome in adults, but at age 21, it is no longer called nysc. And it was first described in children. So

26:47  
what we know about it is that it is very similar to another entity called Kawasaki disease. Or there's another one called macrophage activation syndrome, that sometimes we see in children. And all of those are basically syndromes where your body overreacts to something. In this case, it's the the virus and the immune system goes haywire. And all of that excess inflammation causes disruption to organs and how things normally work. And it is very rare.

27:28  
We at mec have treated 16 children so far. And in the state, I think we are approximately in the 40s now and nationally, we are over 1000. And you can tell you know we've had so many COVID cases. And so you can think about you know, 1000 cases of mitc. It's pretty rare.

27:52  
And it is

27:55  
but no less scary. Right? Exactly. So what's striking about it is in children, we know that that acute COVID tends to be very mild in children. But MSC often is very serious and can be life threatening. So one of the biggest things to know about it is that if you can recognize the symptoms early and get kids into treatment, they do exceptionally well.

28:21  
It's when they when people don't recognize the symptoms, and it goes on for a number of days. Sometimes unfortunately for a week or longer. Those kids by the time they present to emergency departments are very, very ill. These are kids that had tested positive for COVID. And this is kind of a this happens afterwards. So in most of our cases, the families have no idea that the children actually had COVID, or even worse because they raised somebody with COVID. Exactly, or had very mild symptoms. And so it presents about two to four weeks after their COVID. Although as I said they often don't know they have COVID. And then they have usually fever is a pretty universal sign. And they have very high fevers. Not in every case, but in a lot of cases, what do you call a high fever of 104. We've seen kids present with 105. And that that's high even for you know, children who tend to have higher fevers.

29:28  
One of the things that make it makes it very hard to diagnose is that lots of kids have fevers.

29:35  
And lots of kids have diarrhea or vomiting or rash. And so it often just is not diagnosed quickly, because it looks like many other things.

29:47  
And so one of my soapbox is, if you will for many many months now is to really work on raising awareness of the symptoms and this potential diagnosis.

30:00  
For parents and for providers,

30:04  
you know, parents know their kids the best. And so if they have a high fever, and they don't know why they really need to go to the emergency department and and say, is it possible that my child has MSE? Right, right. Well, so we have one last question for you. And again, we really appreciate all the time that you've taken with us.

30:26  
I know that Dr. Fauci has even talked about this. But as we look into the future,

30:33  
it surely is looking as though we may not have seen the end of pandemics, especially in our lifetime. What do you think kind of looking back at how we took off from this whole realization of COVID, to where we are now? What do you think we could do differently in the future in regards to educating children in a pandemic? What safety measures? Would you maybe recommend starting sooner if we find ourselves in a similar situation? Right? It's it is a loaded question a little bit, because Sorry, no, no, not at all.

31:09  
Before you leave,

31:12  
you know, we know hindsight 2020. And, and that makes everybody look a little bit critical of what was done. But you know, we in infectious disease, I'm sure, including Dr. pouchy, knew that this would eventually come, we have a lot of people on the earth, and they're in close contact with one another, and viruses mutate very quickly. And this was just a matter of time.

31:40  
This is a very unique virus that is unlike anything we've ever seen. And, and so I think that what we have learned for this pandemic certainly can be applied going forward. And and I would say, you know, one key part is we are not done with this pandemic, I am concerned about these new variants and what it might do in the future, to some of the decisions that we are currently making. And we really have to stay very vigilant

32:12  
if these variants, change our data and change what we need to be doing. And I think that that is really one of the biggest messages is that we have to be flexible, we have to understand that data changes. And

32:29  
and this is an evolving process. And in the meantime, we need to make good decisions. We need to wear masks in public. And all of those things will help us get our kids back to school and keep them safe. So I do, Patti did that was our last scripted question, that it wasn't mine. But I do want to ask you one thing, as we all worked to get back to a normalcy, quote unquote, is there one thing I don't know if you can label them? 123? But is there one thing that you would recognize that we can all do, right? I mean, one thing is hard to pinpoint. But physical distancing really is probably the number one thing. So many times in these cases that I look at, people just do not appreciate the risk that they are putting themselves and others in by being close together having gatherings and obviously not wearing masks, but it is the physical space between people. That makes the biggest difference. And I understand why people are frustrated and they want normalcy. But we just cannot let our guard down yet. You know, there are many ways to feel close to people by being creative and keeping people happy and not completely socially isolated, and still maintaining that physical space. So that really, I think the number one thing that people can do. Well, Dr. accurate, we really appreciate your time today. We cannot see us. We can't tell you enough how much we appreciate this. Your insights, your thoughts, your research and sharing that with our charter communities and how much we appreciate that the work. You're doing. Yes. All all medical staff, first responders, essential workers, everyone's frontline folks, and that are they're seeing it firsthand. We absolutely appreciate everything that they are doing, because we know that these times are very tough for them. unprecedent across our state across our country. Yeah. across the world. Yeah, well, I appreciate the invitation. And I would like this pandemic to end as much as anybody I am tired.

34:45  
But we just need to know that it's not over and we just keep working towards the common goal of, of getting back to a place of normalcy, and we do that through being responsible and

35:00  
Knowing what we have to do in the short run for long term goals. Well, thank you for giving us some tips today, some things we can do some strategies we can take to get to that place. You know, it's not a quick fix. keep everybody safe in the meantime. Absolutely. Well, thank you again, for coming on with us today. We appreciate it. And maybe we'll talk down the road sometime. Absolutely. Anytime. I'm happy to do it. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Goodbye, Patti. I thought that went really well. I was excited to have her on and get her insights as to what she's seen through her research. But the way that she presented some of the things that we've all thought about, but the way that she presented them some stuff that we hadn't thought Exactly, and I thought the way that she described them and what she's seen and how she looks at those ideas, and I was I was just, it was really cool. And not just within the walls of a medical facility when she was talking about the increase in gun violence between Monday and Friday. Yes, it made so much sense. Absolutely. But I had not heard that. I hadn't heard of that either. Yeah, so

36:10  
we can't thank her enough for her for taking the time out of her day. And she was she was telling us about her day and how busy it was with meetings and things like that, and everything that she's involved in with infectious diseases loss, a full schedule of patience, patience, and now she's actually working with more school districts, right. We mentioned Charleston County School District, she told us that she's going to be working with the Greenville County School District Board, right? She's going to be presenting to the board. She was very excited to come on today. We were discussing before we started recording about sharing her information with the charter community. And she was asking us about the charter community. We were sharing information. She's a foreign six year old and I think she was kind of asking some questions. So it's nice, I think so too. But I really appreciate your time and her insight there. Her research and what it's showing. Just some good takeaways. Yeah, absolutely. I like this bonus episode. I like the idea of it. We want to bring these bonus episodes from you from time to time as they're timely and we certainly think having her own and discuss these kind of things, or Sure, maybe some new legislation that we feel like we can't wait until the next one we we want to get it out to you right away. We update what's coming down the pipeline, what's gonna happen soon, maybe actions that you can take that can help the charter movement help your school

37:35  
in a timely fashion. Yeah, things that that are happening right then. So we appreciate you being here today. that's gonna do it for the first bonus episode, in the bag in the can, as they say in the industry. Well, thank you for listening. You can support the show by giving us a like and subscribing wherever you get your podcasts from. We'd also love to hear from you. Get in touch with the show at podcast at SC charter schools. org. Let us know if you have a topic or an idea for the show. Or if you're interested in sponsoring an episode. You can email us again podcast at SC charter schools.org. Like us on Facebook and Instagram at St charter schools on Twitter. That's the charter school. And remember to use the hashtag my charter sc. So next time I'm Kevin, Paddy.

38:33  
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