Conversation with Superintendent Spearman | The Charter Movement

In this episode, we speak with South Carolina Superintendent of Education Molly Spearman. We discuss the ongoing pandemic and its impact on our schools, students, teachers, and families. We touch on what we've learned nearly a year after shutting down schools and the ways schools can safely get back to in-person instruction, plus what can be done for teacher morale. We ask Superintendent Spearman about the success of charter schools in SC and what has surprised her about their growing popularity. Plus, we get her thoughts on the push to expand the 4K program across the state.

We appreciate the Superintendent's time and her leadership for schools, districts, and students around our state. Find more about the South Carolina Department of Education here: https://ed.sc.gov/.

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Transcript

0:00  
The charter movement has added such a tremendous option for families.

0:14  
There's the battle and that means we're in session. Welcome to sc charter chatter were presented by the Public Charter School Alliance of South Carolina. Thank you for joining us today. We're your co-hosts for sc charter chatter. I'm Kevin.

0:26  
And I'm Patty.

0:27  
And we have a special guest today. You heard just a few seconds from her at the top of the show, South Carolina Superintendent of Education Molly Spearman joined us for a conversation to cover several topics, like the ongoing pandemic and its impact on students, and how we can get back to in person instruction. We talked about school choice the success of charter schools and their future in South Carolina. Plus, we get her thoughts on 4k, so a lot to get to. And we're pretty excited about being here. Yeah, we share our superintendent spearmint has been serving in her role since 2015. And before that, served as deputy superintendent for six years. So she's been leading the way in our state on education for a while.

1:05  
And Kevin, let's not forget that right at about a year. Now. She's been tasked with guiding schools and districts through a global pandemic.

1:11  
So let's get to it. Thank you, Superintendent Spearman, for joining us today. We appreciate your time,

1:17  
Kevin, first of all, let me say thank you all to especially any teacher that might be listening today to say, you have done an extraordinary job, all of our educators working together

1:29  
as a superintendent, we are nearly a year into this pandemic, and juggling how to deliver safe instruction to students. What have we learned,

1:37  
I think back to March, a year ago, and when we only had one or two cases in the entire state. Everyone was so fearful, did not know what to expect how it would impact schools. And really, you know, we closed all the schools are answering to the cries of everyone to the public, why haven't you closed the schools yet. And we did that. And I think it was the right thing to do at the time. But since then, we have learned a tremendous amount about how the virus works, who it affects most, how to be safe. And I think the most important thing that I have seen now, with school, schools being back in session is we have learned that it can be done safely. You cannot 100% keep the virus out. Sure. But the data that's coming in now from those schools that have been back face to face, they're doing a remarkable job with the face mass, we can control that in a school setting, the social distancing. Cleaning the building sanitizers tracing, we have proved that schools can operate safely now, I will say there are times on now that the virus has spread so widely in the population. Some of our schools are really struggling now, even though they're back full-time face to face, their staff members are all the diseases being transmitted not so much at school, but out in the community. So they're having a tough time staying open because of that. But it has really been a lesson in how all controlled of an environment how cooperative our students and teachers families are to make the best of this virus. So I would say that's the number one thing that I've learned and observed over the last few months.

3:38  
And I think what you hit it on the head just there at the end the cooperation between schools and families. Right, must always, but in this situation that is very, very key, I believe.

3:54  
Yeah, that's right. And you know, it's work. That's right. And it goes from families being careful at home to watching Tim for tours to make sure their child has on a mask when they leave in the morning, helping out or bringing children to school, or in the traditional setting rather than on the bus. Even though you know we have been running the buses in the traditional setting. But I know that there are families in our charter schools have really stepped up to the plate as well. So it's been remarkable to watch it and I think it's a testament all across the nation. Absolutely. And I hope it will, will calm some of the fears. We say we want to work off of the data while the data is showing now it can happen so I'm hoping that some of the fear that people have had about coming back to school that will help calm their fearsome

4:51  
Superintendent spearmint use. I know you've made a request to the governor and also to de hack to make sure that teachers and school staff who interact with those students especially Face to face are a priority in getting the COVID-19 vaccine. during phase one B, have you heard any indications that that is going to happen? Well,

5:11  
I'm really pushing for this because, as you know, the group one B has failed 10s of 1000s, hundreds of 1000s of people. And while everyone needs a vaccine, I think the impact that knowing that teachers have had the vaccine, and that we can keep our schools open, and that we are using every possible measure to do that, is the reason that I ask that our teachers be prioritized at this current time as we speak. I do not have any confirmation that they will be prioritized, but I have been in meetings both with the governor's office and with the heck, as late as yesterday talking about this. So I'm optimistic. But you know, I don't have the final Yes, we're going to do it. And also, we're all just waiting on the vaccine right now, South Carolina does not have enough vaccine to finish off one a. But I would I wish we could be moved up to one a but that is not in my authority. But I'm certainly pushing for it to happen just as soon as possible.

6:19  
And do you know of FAA, given any indication of when we as a state might be able to start rolling into one be?

6:27  
Not anything definite? Again, it depends totally on the allocation on the vaccination. I don't know that it's going to be as soon as I had hoped, I was hoping that it would be something that would be starting in the next week or so. But I don't think we have enough vaccine right now for that to happen. But I am continuing to push hard. And I know that legislators have joined in on this and the public generally is asking for the same thing. So I appreciate their support.

6:57  
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, teaching is already stressful in normal circumstances. And that's, of course, especially true in a pandemic. So teacher burnout is always a big concern, teacher shortages, teacher burnout, are there any things that you think can be done at the state or local levels just to help educators?

7:21  
Well, I know that is reality, there are reality things The first thing well, I tell us the legislature yesterday I the first thing I said was absolutely you need to go back and fund that retroactive 2% step increase for teachers. I think that's that. That's the first thing. But as far as the burnout part, the emotional part, it has been hard, tired. And I think we all just have to step away. And I had a very wise staffer at the statehouse yesterday, say, you know, everybody just really needs to chill, a minute, we are in a pandemic is not over. I've tried to relay that message to teachers to parents who say, you know, do the best you can. And, and we're all in this together. And, and really, we just need to step back. And look, we've we've managed almost a year now in the us when we thought it might be a couple of weeks. So take a deep breath, pat on the back and take some time for your say I remember I think that's

8:25  
I think that's probably the most important thing to say. But I think for the public and for the legislature and for the state of South Carolina to show our appreciation means a lot to so doing this step increase for the salary, I think to get the prioritization for teachers and vaccinations shows some extra support that the state could give. Absolutely. I remember about a year ago listening to you, when this was first all starting and you'd made a you know, I remember you talking in public, I think it was a press conference. And you said, first and foremost, we have to make sure that we're taking care of the social and emotional well being of the students in South Carolina. And obviously, as this has continued, that, of course always has but now even more included are educators and school staff.

9:18  
That's right. And we're offering more counseling on encouraging school districts and our schools as they receive the latest cares that funding we're calling it cares that too, to do things to support their teachers, support their students, counseling support. I think we're going to be dealing with this for a long time, but the less stress that I can put on teachers right now is what I'm trying to do and I think that probably leads us into talking about you know, the spring assess.

9:54  
Well, that's a great segue superintendents pyramid you've done this before, I believe

9:59  
so I'm sure you want to draw now you want to talk about that.

10:05  
You are aware of House Bill 3618 in front of lawmakers now that would require all public school students to take state standardized test this school year. Can you give us just some of the pros and the cons of doing the taking that test and not taking that test for teachers and students and families and all involved?

10:26  
Yes, well, the Pro is absolutely, we have to know where our students are. Okay, but the con, I say is, you don't have to do that through the summative test. At the end of the year, I believe the interim tests that we already give in schools, and have now been mandated by the legislature that we give, whether it's maps, or whatever formative type interim assessment is given. And we need to have that done three years, three times during the year. And that gives that informs teachers how to do their instruction immediately. rather than waiting, I mean, if we do this test at the end of the year, yes, it will give information to state leaders, but it's not really for the teachers to to change their instruction or to give the remediation that they need immediately in the classroom. So I my stance is that we can get the information that we need, from the interim, three interim tests that are being given. And we do not have to do the SC pass test those standardized tests at the end of the year. Now, I think also, that is a stress reliever. That's not the only reason that's not the most important reason to do this. But I think it's a very foundational thing. And we realize that's an outcome of this. The public agrees with this. Our federal delegation agrees on waiving, we have our waiver in now to the US Department of Education. The Biden administration is transforming transforming into the US Department of Education. Now, they sent out something to us this week, and we think we will hear something in the next few weeks because those tests are required by the face. But I've asked him to weigh that. And I'm really happy now to know that several other states, New York, the largest state justice week, or is the largest state gets asked for the waiver has joined in on that. So I'm optimistic. And I'm going to keep pushing on that.

12:38  
To me, one of the concerns or just challenges, if we do take those assessments is simply logistics, you know, we have a lot of students that are choosing to go virtual. And so just that simple logistic to me is because I obviously have to be given in person. And so that's a challenge. But so

12:58  
it is a challenge. It is a challenge. And you know, I understand the argument that we didn't do them last spring, and we're going to be going, but again, one thing I did mention is there is a new tool that the department folks are here in South Carolina. And California is working with us as well. We're working with education analytics on a new tool called rally that takes the interim assessment data, and through their analysis can give us some comparative data we're in we're receiving that now from the pre assessment that was given in August and December assessment. And we'll be giving a report to the state board next week. So I hope that when the legislature sees that information that it will convince them that indeed the interim assessments are giving us enough information,

13:54  
right. That's a well, that's good to know, that's new to me, Patti, I hadn't. I didn't know about those.

14:01  
Well, it's brand new. Okay, it's brand new. We've been working, we've been working with them now over well, all past summer getting ready for this. And a lot of states are watching to see how this goes. So I'm real proud of the work. But it is a brand new tool to take the interim formative type assessment data and give more comparative data and historical data with it than we have ever had before. That

14:29  
is one thing going through this pandemic for now. We can say a year now going through everything that we've been going through, we take all of our tools and lay them out and think outside the box on everything. And nothing's off the table as far as how can we get the job done of educating students? So that's awesome. That's another great tool for for our state for our students. And

14:52  
that's kind of what charter schools have always done. They've always looked at how can we be innovative?

14:56  
Absolutely, absolutely. Absolutely. That's wrong. We're gonna To switch gears just a little bit here, superintendent, spearmint and maybe move away from the pandemic, just a bit and get into a couple of other topics that I think talk about some

15:07  
happier thing.

15:08  
Yes, absolutely. South Carolina charter schools have seen exponential growth over the past few years, as we enter our 25th year of being able to issue charters in this state, we sit at 81 schools serving just over 45,000 students, what has surprised you most about the school choice movement in South Carolina?

15:29  
Well, and I've been there the whole way. I'm admitting my I remember, well, just, you know, there was great tension, there was great tension, and and again, kind of fear of what would happen to traditional schools with the competition or the option of charters. And I have really seeing that change. And, and I am so proud of that, that. I think the traditional public school folks now realize and see the charter public schools that charters our public schools, and give us a another fantastic option for parents, because parents do need those choices. And thank goodness, thank goodness, the charters were there, because it particularly those mini virtual charters that were able to assist and help families during the pandemic. And that's not ever going to go away. Again, I think we've learned through the pandemic, we're going to come out on the other side, I think stronger, but we have seen the importance, and how accessible our charters are to families across South Carolina. And just the cooperation now that I see between the charter movement and our traditional schools really makes me proud and, and they're pleased to say now I know they're still sometimes when we might disagree money when money comes, you know, kind of love to fight over money. But again, the charter movement has added such a tremendous option for families. And and I'm really proud to to see how accountable or that the charter movement is and wants to be. Just like in traditional schools, I've had to move in to give assistance to traditional schools, we're now doing that for some charter schools. And as we move through, if if a school cannot give the right outcomes produce the right outcomes, then something needs to be done. They are in just that ability and and understanding of the charter movement that we have to work together on that and fulfill those promises that we've made.

17:57  
And I'm glad you mentioned that that connection between traditional public schools and public charter schools have how that has evolved over those 25 years, because we have a number of local districts across the state that support charter schools inside their district.

18:14  
Right, we have 14 local school districts that have at least one charter school.

18:19  
Right. So that that just shows you there that how that has that. How that has grown. That's right,

18:26  
we've come a long way on this. And and I know we're not, we're not there yet perfect. But we have come a long way in understanding and supporting each other. Because in the very beginning, it was sort of them against us. And I don't sense that nearly as much and I'm really, really pleased with

18:48  
like Patti told me the other day, the work is never done, but we've come so far. We'll just keep going forward. And that's that's really why and

18:56  
I really like to even showcase our Charter High Schools. I think that the innovation that they have, we have so many different types of Charter High Schools and they've really helped to from you know, our are at risk of being a dropout, charter schools to our charter schools that help gifted and talented students. We even have one in Orange County that that brings motor sports, you know, building NASCAR's and go karts into it. I mean, and getting these kids involved. I think it's really helped to push our grad rate up as well. I think we've we've captured some kids that otherwise if it was only a difference between traditional public school or private school we would have lost.

19:50  
That's right. I agree with you, Patty, and we need I tell folks what we need all the help we can. This is hard work. Very, very hard work to me. The needs of every child in South Carolina however,

20:02  
we can find a way to inspire a student to be a student, is what

20:09  
I mean, we've had we've even seen students and, and you know, as a mother, even Superintendent spearmen, not every child is the same, nor that, nor should they be. And so we see even a lot of families in charter that have, you know, one or more child children in traditional public schools, and then there's children that they have in charter schools. And and that's great. That's fine.

20:34  
That's right. And, and I've seen that to Patti. And, and I think that speaks to the commitment of families. And I appreciate that, that, you know, they want to support the public education system, places where any child is accepted at any time. And that is why I believe the charter movement is so important to so because we appreciate your ongoing support.

21:01  
Absolutely. Thank you.

21:03  
So we have just one last question for you. We really, again, appreciate all your time. And this one we know is very, very near and dear to your heart, it has to do with 4k. So we know 4k has been a big priority, not only for, you know, South Carolina Department of Ed, but you personally. What do you see as being the biggest challenges to getting our four year old children into a class? Is it a financial barrier? Is it infrastructure where the schools just don't have the space for it? What do you see is really being kind of some of the barriers to getting that done? And if you wouldn't mind? Why do you think it is so important?

21:41  
Well, first of all, it's you know, the the importance of getting children into school early to try to get them ready for that kindergarten learning. For first grade kindergarten. If we can end the data shows us that if it's done really well, we can have children ready, we can have them ready even though they may be and live in deep poverty or not have had the all the resources that they need needed. If they can come into a 4k program with a quality teacher quality instruction there, we can change that. And and that will affect that child for the rest of their k 12 experience. Now, the thing that we've also learned is you got to continue to support them, you can't just do 4k and think, Oh, well, it's all over. But I found on the challenges, I think are all the things you mentioned, funding, which not only helps support the classroom teacher, and the resources that you need to build that classroom. But all space has been an issue or infrastructure space has been an issue and some areas expanding. I think the parent parents often may have to choose private or 4k of private four year old program, because they need longer hours than the school may be able to offer. So in the last year or two, we have given 4k folks the flexibility to use some of the extra money that they're getting to expand their programs either more days, longer hours to help support the families so that they can participate. So communication of all of that out in the communities. As you know, the certificate program that we have now for high poverty children in those planted districts, we want to expand

23:45  
expanded quite a bit.

23:47  
That's expanded a lot. Of course, we want to expand now to all districts in the state would be my wish that we would offer it for everyone. But for sure to get this expanded out into other districts so that they can do this high poverty, children who have that challenge. But it's it's money. But it's also communication. Sometimes. We know that there are children out there and there are a few problems, they might have open slots. And we're working very closely. I think we have a much stronger relationship now with first steps in working with them to help those private organizations Be ready on the private child development centers to take on children. So it's it's better collaboration, better cooperation with us in the government offering this and with school districts, but also again with families for them to know what is available and for us to offer a program that will meet their needs.

24:49  
Right and we've even seen that with charter schools we've you know seen several that have included for K have asked for charter charter changes to add a 4k, or are at least working with Office of school facilities to see if their current facility is even appropriate for 4k. And that just goes to show, you know, again supporting the family.

25:16  
And we are asking, right and we we've done some things over the last year or two, because the requirements for the 4k program were quite different from more stringent than then a five k abs. So we've worked with DSS and have some of those regulations relieved. Now that opens up better possibilities for the infrastructure piece of what schools have to offer, it was so stringent that it kept Sam just said no way we can't meet those needs. So it again, I think all the state agencies needed to listen to the folks who are out in the field. And we have responded by streamlining and really ending some of the requirements there. So that schools can offer the program with the classroom space that they have available, much like they do for five K,

26:08  
definitely. I think the one thing I keep hearing from pandemic to what do we do next for our students, through testing through 4k is the partnership between families and the schools, regardless of what school that is, regardless of where that is in our state. It's about that partnership. And it works best we all know when that partnership exists between family and school. And that's, that's important. That's really important for our students,

26:38  
for us to listen to those families and really try and meet their needs, definitely their own students. And so and that really is what the charter school model has been about the offering, offering a specialty that had was not offered by the traditional school. And I'm really proud of the work we've done here in South Carolina. And I thank all the folks who are our teachers, whether it's in a traditional school, but today, especially in charter schools, for the families who support those. And for us the cooperation from the leadership, I will say that we have tremendous leadership now in our charter districts. And our school district, South Carolina public charter district and our district level folks out there who sponsor and authorized charters in their own traditional school district. So leadership matters. And leader good leaders know how to listen and to try and work together to meet the needs of their constituents.

27:42  
We agree and we appreciate your leadership, and we appreciate your support. And we can't say thank you enough for joining us today.

27:51  
Yeah, I do. I enjoy talking with you all

27:53  
you will be enjoyed speaking with you today as well.

27:57  
Yeah, it's always good when we can speak with Superintendent Spearman and hear her perspective on things and how things are progressing at the state level. And also think it's good for our charter community to hear the support from her.

28:08  
Yes, so

28:09  
we appreciate her coming on with us because we know her schedule is busy. Well, that's another one in the book.

28:15  
And that's a wrap for our second episode.

28:18  
Thank you for listening. You can support the show by giving us a like and subscribing wherever you get your podcasts from. We would also love to hear from you. Get in touch with us at podcast SC charter schools.org. Let us know if you have a topic or an idea for the show. Or if you're interested in sponsoring an episode. You get emails again, podcasts at SC charter schools.org like us on Facebook and Instagram at SC charter schools on Twitter st charter school and remember to use the hashtag my charter sc. Until next time, I'm Kevin and I'm Patty.

29:07  
The information opinions or recommendations presented on this podcast are for general information only a no person should act or refrain from acting on the basis of the content of this podcast without seeking appropriate professional advice. The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those of the individuals and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the public charter schools alliance of South Carolina and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any other entity they represent a nation immaterial and this episode will not be updated and may not be current. Please consult your own professional for any advice for your specific situation. To read the full disclaimer go to SD charter schools.org

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