School Finance | Don't Go At It Alone

In this episode, we discuss best practices and some common pitfalls when it comes to school finance. We talk about strategies and steps you can take now to help your school be financially sound.  These actions can help effectively manage your school's finances while maximizing your ability to make the most of every educational dollar. 

Our guest is Dave Faunce. Dave is the managing partner with Prestige School Solutions.
 Dave has been involved in the charter school movement since the mid-1990s in South Carolina and North Carolina. He works with charter schools, not only to improve their overall financial well-being but to help them reach higher levels of student performance and overall success. You can learn more about Prestige School Solutions here: http://prestigeschoolsolutions.com/.

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Transcript

0:10  
There's the bell and that means we're in session. Welcome to sc charter chatter. We're presented by the Public Charter School alliance of South Carolina. Thank you for joining us in what is our first full episode. We're your co host for SC charter chatter. I'm Kevin.

0:25  
And I'm Patti. And we are super excited to talk about charter school finance today with Dave Faunce. Dave is the managing partner for prestige school solutions. And really, anyone who's done board training with me in the past knows that my favorite part of training is always when we talk about charter school finance.

0:44  
Well, it is an area where all schools must succeed in to do well. So with that, let's get David on the conversation and let our listeners get introduced to him or in some cases reintroduced to him. So Dave, how you doing today?

0:59  
I'm doing well. Thanks so much for having me.

1:01  
Why don't you tell us just a little bit about yourself and what you do with charter schools?

1:07  
Okay, well, I've, I've been, I'm actually a CPA, by training and, and by education. But I got involved in charter schools over 20 years ago, in North Carolina, and then six or seven years ago, found myself working in charter schools in South Carolina, which is where I've met some good charter school friends. And we've brought some folks down in North Carolina brought some folks up from South Carolina. So the majority of our work is focused in charter school finance, working to help schools with their back office. But we also do some school recovery work and, and some other tasks that just helped to build successful charters throughout not just the state. But throughout the entire movement.

1:53  
It seems like you really have been on the side of students and schools for a long time. And we certainly appreciate all of the efforts that you put in, and that your team puts in to support charter schools.

2:05  
Yeah. So hey, Dave, I, this is something that comes up all the time, and I just, we really want to sink into your knowledge and what you see. So what do you actually see is the biggest sinkhole that a school can get themselves into financially?

2:24  
Well, it's a great question I actually get asked this,

2:27  
and it's kind of broad,

2:29  
ya know, and I think that we can, we can narrow it down easily enough. But the, and I'm also I'm, I'm a private pilot, so I cannot relate things to flying in an airplane. So in an airplane, you know, risk is rarely associated with a single event or a single failure. So for example, if my electrical system went out, well, that is an emergency. I have a specified procedure and a set of systems that I've rehearsed, to be able to plan for that in advance of my flight, and enable me to land safely. It's so it's when we take and relate that to charter schools, let's say that enrollment falls short. But we've prepared for that eventuality by maybe holding off on some hires or waiting to purchase expensive technology or equipment until we knew enrollment was were supposed to be, well, it's still a serious situation that enrollments down, but our plan will get us safely through this school year. So in aviation, just like in charter schools, catastrophes happen when single events begin to happen in succession. And we didn't rehearse or create a plan for those events. So, for example, in charter schools, let's say enrollment falls short. But I already went and hired for those positions. And now those positions can be funded. Right. So now I have to go and I had to lay people off, or, you know, reduce my reduce my, my payroll. And so we start firing people, well, those employees who are fired, or they share their experience with other employees, other employees see that they get nervous about their jobs. Suddenly, morale starts deployment, our stakeholders see this parents begin pulling their kids out of the school because they they worry about its long term viability. And you can see how that one, that one element where we didn't have a plan to deal with it, and we really didn't use good foresight to manage it has now turned into something that compounds itself and creates a bigger a much bigger problem. So the biggest sinkhole really is a series of small sinkholes for which we failed to adequately plan and really rehearse our strategies.

4:41  
So what about and I totally agree with you and I love the analogy with flying because I think everybody can totally understand and relate to that. Sure. But we so basically what you're saying is if we have you know, fund balance and we have so many if we are able to do things with our budget, We can sometimes avoid the inevitable. But what happens with these new schools who are just getting started? They don't have it. And you know, you know, we always talk about these new schools and we say Halloween is scary sometimes not just because of ghosts and goblins, but because you hit October, November, and you still don't have some federal funds coming in and the expenses are piling up. And like, how does a new school try to avoid some of that

5:29  
on the front end?

5:31  
I think and, and with new schools, especially this planning, and this foresight piece is so critically important. So and remember, in charter schools, everything's connected, right? So governance is connected to finance, which is connected to leadership, which is connected to hiring, which is connected to recruiting, etc, etc, all the way down the line. So for new schools, I would say the most important thing is to really strive to understand how everything's connected, there are 1000s of charter schools in the US, and we're starting to bump up to around the 100 mark, you know, we're 70 or so in South Carolina on 81. So we're bumping even closer. And so we don't have to new schools, especially we don't have to reinvent wheels, we don't have to go out there and create our home, cook our own solution to what may come down the line. If schools would reach out, and they connect with other schools and school leaders that have been successful, and then model the plan after there's, and that's where that's where the Alliance is so helpful in being able to really facilitate those connections, and provide that proven set of resources that help new operators to avoid these old mistakes.

6:45  
Right, right. No, I, I totally agree with you. I know, during our board trainings, you know, we talked about, Well, hey, we have 81 schools, but in the same respect, we had to look at the fact that there have been 40 charter schools since 1996, when the law was enacted that have opened and closed. And people often say, Well, why what's the reason and, you know, I'll say, there might be one primary reason, but there's always three reasons. And that is low student enrollment leads to low finances, right butts and seats, that's just the reality. And if you don't have the money coming in, you can't attract, hire, hire pedigree of teacher, right, your high high teachers that you want, you can't provide the educational services and opportunities, a lot of times that are set forth in your charter. And by not doing that, that's gonna make less kids come to your school. And again, it's just a circle. And it before you know it, it's a tornado.

7:48  
That's right. And and keep in mind that, you know, you can't approach opening a charter school, like opening a small business out there a computer repair shop, or something where you can, you can pull it off on a shoestring budget, and with just a couple of people and not having to reach out for help. The these are complicated structures, they're complicated business structures, and they're complicated operational structures, with important promises upon which your customers if you will expect you to deliver. So don't be fooled into thinking that this is this is as easy as opening a lemonade stand somewhere. It's very, very different. And so, you know, new operators also have to be cautious, to really explore, explore and really reflect on why do I want to open a charter school in my community? Am I opening it because real documented need exists, and therefore will have a population that will come to the school and be able to support that school? Or am I starting a charter school for other reasons? And if your answer is the latter, it may do well to spend some time in a charter school as a staff member or as a teacher or even as a volunteer, before you strike out and say, Well, I'm going to open a charter school in this school district, and we're going to have 1000 students, if he really has to be a very carefully thought out plan.

9:17  
Right, right. And you and I independently talk to groups throughout the year that have you know, that that this happens, we talk to them and sometimes you you know, I have to stop and say, remember that a charter school is a gift to the state of South Carolina. It's not a gift to yourself.

9:37  
That's right. So and, and those 40 schools that we've lost, they leave a lasting, they leave a lasting impact. It's an honor Just a moment. They really do. They really do.

9:49  
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And unfortunately, a lot of times just because you know, we're not always able to share everything on Maybe it's a personnel issue or whatever that leads us not able to share all of the details. And so that leads it where we're not learning from that. That's correct. And that's really difficult to well. So poor student enrollment projections talk a little bit about that. Because, you know, we we start now planning for next year, and guessing how many students we have and guessing is exactly what we're doing. So talk a little bit about what you encourage your schools to do when they're building their enrollment projections.

10:37  
So we we asked them first to create some form of a mechanism that allows them to judge what what the support is in the community through extensive surveying, even through some market studies and market based work. But also, we're getting to a point where we have at where we have 81 schools in South Carolina, there should be some local schools that you can look to and see for yourself how their enrollment is going, did they have waiting lists that are established? Have they had good enrollment? Or had they struggled with enrollment? Look, look for other factors in the community that may affect low and or may affect enrollment as well. So, you know, we had a community that wanted a charter school down in the in the lower part of the state in the low country at one point, and there was a big industry down there. And they said, Well, you know, this industry is really going to support the school. And when the school was approved, that industry was still there. And a year after the school was approved, that industry had picked up and moved down. So we have to consider the economic climate as well. And and are we are we in a are we in an economy that's contracting, where we see businesses leaving the community and thus people and families leaving the community? Or are we seeing are we seeing a period of growth, where factories are being built, and there's new construction everywhere, those visible signs help us to be able to determine if we have properly staged our grade span and enrollment for a given community, and look at the achievement levels in that community as well. If there if if achievement levels are consistently low, and there really are no alternatives, there really is no parent choice, the school is going to fare much better from an enrollment point of view, than going into a community where parents are generally satisfied with the resources available. And the schools are at least performing adequately. So lots of factors to look at to ensure that we don't say, well, we're gonna that first year, we're going to have 600 kids, and then we wake up on day one. And we have 160 on the books.

12:51  
Right. Right. And we've we've done purchasing and we've, we've hired teachers, and now we can't make payroll.

12:58  
Even more so yes. Correct. That's right.

13:00  
So Dave, when we're we talk student enrollment projections, how do we work in per pupil waiting for special education services, occasional education, and things like that?

13:12  
Yeah. So, you know, pupil weightings. And I think that when I work with new groups, one of the longest conversations that we have, and sometimes one of the most frustrating conversations that we have is, how does this whole funding model work in South Carolina, this is, this is just this, this is definitely 1000 piece puzzle. And sometimes you feel like, you feel like the dog ate a couple of pieces.

13:38  
And once you get used to it, it changes.

13:41  
Yeah, it does. Change. That's it, right, nothing stays the same. But for new schools, or even for schools that may be in their second year and is still kind of getting their footing. We recommend that they look first at the 45 day count for the local district that they're in and you can actually can find those right online right on the SC D website. They you can pull it down by district and it will give you the it will give you the count, but it will especially give you the weightings. That's a really good starting point to be candid, you know, kind of put some form to the nature of the students who will be coming to the school, particularly as it relates to add on weightings and extra ratings and whatnot. And now it's an imperfect science, it's not to be exact, but but it is reasonably safe to assume that like if your school is going to be in the Lexington to school district, it's reasonable to say that your population will probably look a lot like what the district student population will. And then in the in the same vein, if there are charter schools nearby, you can look up their 45 Day Counts on that DMV website as well. And that will give you some insight and maybe even a little deeper insight into this. Students who specifically attend charters and how they tend to be weighted are skewed among that spectrum. So now that the only exception or one, it probably not the only acceptable one of the exceptions to that would be something that's affected by mission. So for example, if your school targets an at risk population or a special group, such as children with autism, or certain learning deficiencies or whatnot, your pupil, pupil weighting is going to be skewed considerably more toward those target populations. But as a general rule, I think you can look at surrounding schools and the surrounding district and get a really good idea of what your waiting will look like in the end. That's not right. Yeah.

15:44  
Yeah. And even like, like you were talking about at risk populations, if that equals Title One money coming in, we need to make sure that our that that title, one budget is there to supplement and not supplant? That's correct. That can be very difficult for schools to understand.

16:02  
Yes, yeah, it certainly can. And I think that that is that's one of the struggles that that you and I certainly share, Patty, particularly as we talk to new schools that this is this is meant as an end, in addition to your programs, so it's actually required to give more That's right, requires more spending that is then covered. It's not money that covers existing existing spending. That's and that's a really important point to make with your listeners.

16:31  
So as schools work start to work into their fiscal year 22 budget right now, we all know that money for state budgets comes from taxes, taxes come from assessments, and sales throughout the state. How do you see this pandemic that we've been dealing with for a year now? And the loss of revenues affecting charter schools? And what can the board do now in their planning stages prepare for possible shortcomings?

16:58  
This is the and this is a question that we're especially. Yeah, yeah, that's right. That's right. It's a real easy answer. No, no, it's in it actually is it's there are a lot of moving parts with this. And there's so much uncertainty, but we can, we can count on the fact that there is going to be an impact. Right now, we don't know what the degree of that impact is going to be. But there are a few key things to remember their first, if if infections do eventually slow due to the vaccinations and whatnot, the effect of the pandemic is going to be lagging. Right. So some experts are saying that this past year, in a pandemic state will actually have an impact on budgets five to eight years from now. So there really is a it really is a lagging impact or almost a lagging indicator of sorts of what the future may bring. And I do think that state and federal governments are going to do their best to kind of minimize and mitigate that funding impact. But it's unlikely they're going to be able to completely eliminate the impact altogether. I mean, sales, tax revenues, occupancy, tax revenues, tourism, losses, income, taxes, losses, they're all going to be felt, regardless of any stimulus program that's put out there. So I think that what we are telling our schools is first, know that this is going to last. But second, be aware of the fact that this pandemic may very well not be our last, and governments and governors especially now have a roadmap for any time that a new virus or a new strain creates a risk of massive population infection. I think future stay at home orders and other executive orders that will shut down schools and shut down other economic drivers like restaurants and hotels and whatnot, that may likely be in the offing in some future years. So now's the time to create that solid plan for adapting. And I tell folks that you know, you need to be financially nimble, and we can certainly move into a discussion on that. But you also need to be operationally nimble. And that really, is that what I'm saying when I say that is that you have to have a plan to be able to pivot to an online learning environment. And not I mean, we all saw how disruptive it was for schools that that met in a traditional setting to suddenly pivot to an online platform. And, and again, this is where the innovation, innovation of charter schools was really, really kind of shining at that point. Because we have a lot of schools that are virtual, but we have some other schools that have already thought about how do we pivot to that online learning. So being able to be operationally nimble is extremely important. For the next time it happens just to lower that disruption. level.

20:01  
The theme that I'm hearing here is is planning, being preparing.

20:05  
That's right. But at the same time, I mean, it's also time, now's the time to know your numbers, right? And not just not just your budget numbers for this year. But also know your numbers in that. How do they interact with one another? What are some important ratios that measure but also predict our liquidity? The answer questions like, how much does it cost to operate our school every day? Or how many days could we operate? With the cash we have in an existing crisis? How our costs trending over the last 369 or 12 months, right? cash is king, and it's going to continue to be king. And so you have to know your numbers, not just the budget numbers, you have to know the deeper part of that. And we're working with schools really to help them start setting those goals, we're growing the number of days cash on hand each month, typically by at least one or two days is what we're recommending. Remember, it's not just your state funding that's on the line here. This is going to flow down. And we've already seen it, we've seen it flow down to athletics and student activities and annual fundraisers and large drama, large scale drama program. So we have to plan appropriately. But we also have to know what drives our bottom line. Great advice.

21:25  
Yeah, it's really hard to be a school that's mission focused on let's say, performing arts and then a pandemic hits. And you're all at home, and you're not providing a performing arts curriculum because of a pandemic.

21:40  
Yes. And that's sometimes weird. So as I said earlier, our innovation in some ways really shines. But that can be where our innovation creates a hobbling point for us.

21:51  
Yeah, absolutely. We're gonna lighten things up just a little bit here, Dave. So talk to, you know, we talked about looking kind of get a school to be driving down, you know, a one way road the wrong way. But let's, let's talk a little bit about those schools who are just really successful financially. How did they get there? What do you think? What are they thinking about that you think other schools are not what are they open to that other schools are not?

22:23  
But back in the 80s, john Houseman did a commercial for the investment firm Smith Barney, I don't know if you remember it or not. But he's, he's walking through a rose garden and it's in full bloom this little bees flying about. And he says in that john Houseman voice, he says the people of Smith Barney know that good old fashioned hard work is the difference between getting stung, and getting a taste of the honey. I don't know if you remember that or not. But there's actually a lot of wisdom. Well, you know, the 80s, I, you know, I'm an 80s child. But he ends it by saying he says at Smith, Barney, they make money, the old fashioned the way they earn it. And, and really, john hasn't and could really say the same thing. I think about financially successful charter schools, right. So financial stability is the product of good old fashioned hard work. And that's both by school leaders and also by the governing board. So planning. That's right. So schools have put a lot of work into creating their budgets. And then they take those budgets seriously, and they monitor them and they're constantly referring back to them. They are earning their financial success, and they're ensuring that they they get that piece of the honey, if you will. Whereas those schools that have poor coordination between the school leader and the board, those that don't have finance committees are operating with a finance committee. Those that don't meet regularly to scrutinize those budget reports and really scrub them on a month by month basis, at least they're the ones who end up getting stung in the end.

23:55  
let's shift gears just a little bit here and talk about expansion and planning for capital projects. Dave, charter schools in South Carolina have seen huge jump in not only number of schools, but number of students or student interest within those schools. And with that comes the need for more and better facilities. Talk to us about the steps that a board would need to take to start looking at either a new facility or an addition to an already existing facility. Why should their first calls be to can you explain a little bit about how that bond differs from traditional financing? And why do they seem so popular with charter schools these days? bonds that

24:35  
is Sure. Sure. And, and Patti. I mean, you and I have been in this movement a long time. So I'm sure like, like, like me, you remember the days when there wasn't any money out there for charter school facilities, right?

24:50  
I remember when we started Spartanburg prep. I remember every staff member having to take a Cotton pay and us having to eliminate temporarily eliminate a major program. And I remember bill Mosier who you know, has retired now, but was our finance guy saying this budget is written in chocolate pudding? And he was right. And he was right and true bill for him. He was absolutely right.

25:19  
Yes, that is definitely a mosaicism. I've known bill for 20 years. And without a doubt, it's he had a great way of encapsulating things very succinctly.

25:27  
Absolutely. Absolutely. And and, you know, I mean, yeah, I remember when the, the funding was rough. It was rough. It was before the proviso. And you know, it was hard, and we have gotten better. You know, we don't want to go in all the nightmares. But yeah, I mean, we've we've learned from that we've gotten better now,

25:49  
in a to just to add to that specific examples, Feinberg probe is, is putting on an edition

25:55  
edition, the second edition. So doing awesome. Got

26:00  
another 10 years coming full circle there with struggle to doing another edition too, because they've

26:06  
had strong governance from day one.

26:10  
And we really have, we have come such a long way. Because, you know, in those olden days, charter schools were in old abandoned public school buildings, they were in shopping centers that had been vacant, and some of them still are, they were in. They were in church basements or in mobile classrooms. But But now we're starting to see, like you said, we're starting to see the shift toward these innovative facilities, these innovative learning environments, and really, some beautiful schools that are being built out there now. And so, you know,

26:42  
we're starting to see schools get bonds before they're even open. And that was never the case.

26:49  
That's right. That's right as and that's the thing is that suddenly, lenders, I don't know if I can say suddenly, but it's been more the past few years, lenders have really started to look fondly on charter schools. And as a general rule, they're finding that charter schools that are operated Well, they're a good investment, and they pay their they pay their bills, they pay their debt payments. So the money is out there, either through bond financing, or other sources that build and pay for these thoughtful, innovative spaces for charter school students in charter school learning. But it can be a minefield, and you know, you you ask, what's your first call? And that's the first question we often hear well, what do we do now we know that we are in a position to possibly start building but who do we call them? Where do we go? Sometimes we see schools, they run out, and they might hire a developer or they go and hire a bond advisor. And while both of those are really useful in navigating these very large bond offerings, or these financing offerings, they're not the place to start. The starting point is around the table with your finance committee and with your back office provider, or your CFO and or your CFO. That's where the planning should really begin. And that's where the questions need to be asked such as, what can we afford? Can we grow? Or can we sustain the enrollment that we need to meet what the debt obligations are going to be? What's our best timing for doing this? How much money should we raise versus how much money should we borrow? Will this cause a stir among our existing population, you know, nothing, nothing gets parents into quite as much of a ladder as a building project that doesn't go well. So we have to consider all those points. But the best place to do that is right around that table with our own people. And then from there, we can move into developers and architects and bond underwriters and advisors, but start that process at home with that well developed conversation and a plan and some projections be able to kind of model this out for five or six or eight years and see what this looks down looks like down the road.

29:03  
Okay. So let me just ask, what is a bond? Okay, so what is it? We How is it different than traditional financing?

29:12  
Okay, so I kind of look at traditional financing. Traditional financing is when you'd go to a single source for the borrowing. So for example, it's like a mortgage. Yeah, that's a great example. It's like going to the bank for your home mortgage. It's the single source of the funding, and the bank lends it to you from their lending reserves or, or, or whatever, whatever sources they have. The problem is, is it's not necessarily a sustainable ask for or reasonable ask for most banks. Really simply because of the size of these facilities, loans. You know, your local bank is not necessarily a good fit for $25 million loan you Because they're their reserves can't handle that, and can't handle the the risk question that kind of goes with that. So that's why bonds have become popular. And people say, you know, what's a, what's a bond? And, and really, it's it, it's not as complicated as it sounds, it can be a little intimidating. But essentially what it is, is it's a borrowing instrument, where the debt is funded by a group, if you will, a group of investors. And they may they may be seasoned or proven investors or they may be, they may be investment houses or institutional investors like nuveen, or JP Morgan. But it's where these people come together, and they invest in or purchase the bonds, if you will, which is the bond is just like a share in your debt. They purchase these bonds in different denominations. So you might have not to oversimplify, but I think it's effective to, you could have a $20 million bond. And it may be funded by 20 different investors at a, let's say, a million dollar each and million dollar denomination. So that's, that's it, it really the bond really relates to what does the source of the funding look like? In traditional borrowing, it's a single source, it's a bank, the bank, in a bond it you may have six, or seven, or eight or two or 19, different investors come in and buy up those bonds to fund that loan in the end. So but in the end, we have to remember, it's still alone,

31:31  
it's very similar, it seems like to investing in a mutual fund versus getting just a certificate of deposit at your local bank.

31:39  
That's correct. It is it's very similar. And, and there are some differences in the issuance process like so with a bank, with just a regular traditional financing, you fill out one application, you go to the bank, they say yes, they give you the money. And and you're off to the races. In bond financing. It's a much more complicated process, because we're dealing with the Securities and Exchange Commission. And we're dealing with a number of other entities, the State Treasurer's Office, etc. And so all of that, including the IRS, because these are what are called tax exempt bonds, which is another topic altogether. But so we have all of this kind of this regulatory oversight schema that we have to, you know, pay homage to. So there are a number of attorneys involved. And it it is expensive, I always joke about how I'm pretty sure there's not a bond attorney out there who's going hungry these days. The the average issuance costs, you know, we look at charter schools as a whole and what they've been financing, we see those issuance costs, which are attorney fees, and underwriter fees, and you name it, you know, standard overcharges, regular up charges, etc. The average issuance cost range between a quarter of $1,650,000, just depending on what size that you're undertaking. But the incentive is that the the rates are generally quite low. We've seen bonds go for the high threes, up to the low sixes, and, and the low sixes are often the more expensive ones that we see out there. So it's a great source of long term, inexpensive financing, that can take on these large scale projects,

33:29  
start at home and do your homework,

33:31  
that's right, start at home, do your homework there, and then build out from there, you kind of build it, you kind of build it and attach things as you go along.

33:39  
So if you do a band, can you still choose? Will they dictate who you can use for certain things plumbing, electrical contracting? Or do you still have some freedoms,

33:51  
there is there is quite a bit of freedom in that underwriters don't like to get into who's going to install your faucet heads, you know, they're just not interested in that. The one thing that they do look for as you're going through this process is they want to be sure that everything's on the up and up, right, that you didn't, you didn't go to a single source because that single source happens to be your brother in law, or you know, that, that you're actually the what's being promised by your construction group is exactly what they deliver. You know, they they generally are going to question you if you're bringing in a developer who's never developed the charter school before, or never really been down this path. So they don't dictate it, per se, but they certainly will provide guidance and they are going to be a checkpoint there will be accountability there to ensure that what they said would be delivered is precisely what was delivered in the

34:48  
Yeah, well, that certainly makes a lot of sense. Dave, you are a wealth of knowledge. We have really enjoyed our charger chatter. with you today.

 35:01  
Well, I've enjoyed being here.

  35:02  
Yeah, absolutely. So as we wrap up this episode, how about you just share a couple of jewels of knowledge with our, our listeners,

35:11  
okay, right there, they may have more plastic than then precious, precious element and

 35:19  
precious, but I'll

 35:20  
do I'll do my best to make them as shiny as shiny as, as possible. This is pure zirconium coming your way. But look, you know, I've been in I've been in charter since the late 90s, it's really become a passion for me, and, and I'm with a group of people like Patty and others out there in this movement who have worked so hard to develop something that truly gives educational choice in a quality environment. So if I can give any advice, it's number one don't. Like I said earlier, don't reinvent any wheels out there. There are great examples of successful schools that you can use as a model to build from and in the same respect, don't go it alone. There's advocacy groups out there, like the Alliance. And they're also proven experts out there in charter school accounting, and charter school financing and curriculum development, and, you know, facilities development, etc. So reach out, don't you don't have to reinvent the wheel, it's already been created in a way that it rolls quite nicely if it's done properly. And I think those examples are really important to follow. And also, as we kind of noted, school choice, it's a movement. This isn't just about a school, and the school I'm building this is it's bigger than that. It's a movement, and a movement is the most successful when its individual parts succeed. And so that's why responsible leadership, and responsible fiscal management and delivering as promised is so important, not just to the success of your school, but to the future of the entire school choice movement out there.

36:59  
Those sounded like precious gems to me. And I think that you have provided some great information here today, great places to start caps, if you were just jumping into this great places to where you might need to evaluate if you are already deep into this, but just need to, you know, evaluate some things and where you are and where you stand and improve a little bit of your operation. So, Dave, we can't thank you enough for joining us today. And being a part of charter chatter. Yeah, absolutely. And like I said, in the in the teaser to this episode, finance is something all schools must do well, and, and be successful at. So thank you, again, for joining us. And we can't wait to talk to you again next time.

37:51  
Well, I can't wait to talk to you It really has been an honor to be here. And and I'm just so excited for what the future holds for charters. But especially for this podcast, I think it's it's going to be so important to the folks who you advocate for. So thanks again for having me. This is just wonderful.

38:08  
Absolutely. Thank you, Dave,

38:10  
we want to say a very big thank you to everyone who's already supported the show by listening, or subscribing. And also by giving us a rating, we really do appreciate it. Especially I don't know if you notice, Kevin in our stats for the podcast, but we even have a subscriber in

38:28  
France, I saw that I didn't know if that was one of your friends. Because I know I don't have very many international friends. So I thought, Oh, that must be someone you reached out to but I'm

38:36  
not gonna claim that but I'm really hoping that we can maybe even have a listener in you know, Australia or South America.

 38:44  
I mean, so if you're listening in France, or Europe, or any part of Europe or any part of the world, be sure and share this with all your friends and let them know that we're talking about education. We're talking about charter schools in South Carolina. So if you're interested, tune in,

38:58  
and we are apparently are an international podcast.

39:01  
There we go. Already the success has started. If you haven't already, please give us a like and subscribe. Wherever you get your podcasts from. You can get in touch with us through email at podcast at se charter schools.org. Let us know if you have a topic or an idea for the show. Or if you're interested in sponsoring an episode. Again, email us at podcast at St charter schools.org. Like us on Facebook or Instagram at SC charter schools on Twitter, st charter school, and remember to use the hashtag my charter sc. Until next time, I'm Kevin.

39:50  
The information opinions and recommendations presented on this podcast are for general information only and no person should act or refrain from acting on the basis of the content of this podcast without first thinking appropriately. professional advice the views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those of the individuals and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the public charter schools alliance of South Carolina and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any other entity they representation in material and this episode will not be updated and may not be current. Please consult your own professional for any advice for your specific situation. To read the full disclaimer go to SD charter schools.org

Transcribed by https://otter.ai